Value-First Data - Mar 10, 2026

[00:00] **Introduction** Klemen Hrovat: Good afternoon, good evening, of HubSpot, LinkedIn, Value First, whoever we're talking to, uh, today. Casey Hawkins: How long have you been live consecutively at this point? Klemen Hrovat: Oh man. Uh, I think that's the first time I've ever screwed that up, honestly. Um Klemen Hrovat: Good afternoon and good evening, LinkedIn friends, Value First Nation. Welcome to another episode of Value First data with, uh, Casey Hawkins and Klemen Hrovat. Uh, happy Tuesday. Casey Hawkins: Happy doing. Casey Hawkins: Recovering from our marathon Unified Customer View series. Klemen Hrovat: It was not that long. Casey Hawkins: I feel like we've done longer series. Chris Carolan: Yeah, I mean you did talk about lead scoring, I'm still talking about lead scoring for the better part of a year, so that's a good point. Casey Hawkins: Yeah, we are over a year now into lead scoring content, so. Chris Carolan: Yep. Um Chris Carolan: Well, yeah, we learned a lot and honestly, I think we'd be well within our rights and uh, and our uh, willingness to create value for others if we talked about that every week for the rest of the year. Um. Chris Carolan: Uh, but we've got other views to get to. Chris Carolan: Uh, and often this one we're about to talk about today, Unified Revenue View, is what people want to get to first. Um, and often why systems like HubSpot, uh, don't have a say in the matter because that's not the system of record and the dollars and cents are managed over here. Chris Carolan: But somehow, we need the data that's over in the marketing and sales CRM system, to forecast effectively, to understand what uh, what the journey at the front of the process needs to look like in to in order to depend on and forecast the journey for the rest of the process. Chris Carolan: Uh, so I'll ask this first of both of you, have you ever seen a Unified Revenue View in the wild? Klemen Hrovat: I've seen the wild versions of it. Uh, And what does it usually include? Klemen Hrovat: When just whatever it is, without thinking what it should be. Uh, this is I think a typical setup. Uh, that I've been seeing. Uh, and then when you need forecasting or a Board of Director report or something, you need days if not weeks to prepare something and then in between is just a discussion with whatever is there. And then explaining why what you see is not the whole picture and and why you cannot trust what you see. Casey Hawkins: I think what is a Unified Revenue View is? Casey Hawkins: Maybe Mike to answer your question with a question. Um Chris Carolan: You know what? Let's uh let's take a look. Shall we? Uh got to before we jump into the playbook, we're going to follow the rules here. Before you start, watch the concepts uh presentation. Uh, we're going to click on that. Um This is like understanding commercial health of the organization. Chris Carolan: I get at the heart of it. And what usually is not the remit of anybody on the marketing and sales side, the CFO or CEO, like responsible for seeing that whole picture, um, includes forecasting, but also like delivery costs, like what's going out the door? Can we deliver on time? Um, and then there's like like Klemen mentioned, this this ongoing conversation about, okay, you think you're going to sell this much? Chris Carolan: Are you sure? Because if you're sure, we need to buy a whole bunch of stuff or add a bunch of staff or do something with our resources to be able to, you know, fulfill that stuff. Um, and so we're trying to make it so everyone making revenue decisions sees complete commercial reality, not optimistic pipeline, not historical accounting, but relationship-based truth. Chris Carolan: And to your point, Klemen, usually we're explaining the relationship-based truth out loud on a case-by-case basis on the weekly or monthly meeting about why, yeah, that says 80%. But it's really probably like, you know, 60%, like to win. Chris Carolan: And really, if we're being honest, they haven't really said anything at all. Every time this happens other times, we don't win. Chris Carolan: Like all of a sudden everything gets called into question and the views are happening like outside of the system and rarely even documented outside of the most magnificent CFO spreadsheets that you've ever seen. Chris Carolan: Um, when teams do have their their act together. I know if that answers your question, Casey. Klemen Hrovat: There's there's a thought it's constantly on mind. Um, I I never understood the percentages on on deal stages. And and it was the purpose of it. Uh, because of of that, you know, not you cannot say every deal in stage three, whatever that stage is, is 30% ready to be closed. Uh, there's just no way because it it doesn't work like that. Um, and to the other point, one of my first business coaches at my first company, he was always saying even when the deal is closed one, it's still 80% to the to the revenue being realized. Even if you if you sign agreement, there is still no guarantee until you don't see the the money on the bank, you cannot say it's 100%. Klemen Hrovat: Term sheets were signed for companies to be bought and then you know, the day after something happened and and there is no cash, which means there is no acquisition. So until the the money transaction is done, there is no 100% for revenue. But then arbitrary, whatever percentages are is just, you know, tell me what numbers you need and I'll make them. Uh, so you're happy but, uh, yeah, I I think things can be done better. So I'm I'm excited to to see where that conversation goes. Um, I have not been involved in a lot of those conversations in a way that I would be leading those as a sales leader, but I've seen a lot of data around it. Chris Carolan: Yeah. And it's it's tough again, coming at it from the HubSpot perspective, but because of that inherent understanding that percentages and experiments are happening and they've always been happening and the way that, you know, RevOps, before it was called that, in like Mark Roberge, one of his claims to fame, was cost per lead, right? Chris Carolan: And then building that towards like, okay, if we get 1,000 leads, it cost this much, it equals this many close one deals. There's your ROI, like calculation, right? Chris Carolan: And now there was a a podcast episode last week where the um, one of the creators of the concept of an MQL who started Marketto, the whole premise of the episode is how MQL is not a good idea anymore. Like it's not real. And to understand how much has been built off of that single acronym into the process, right? Chris Carolan: It ends up, you know, with stuff like this, right? Pipeline looks healthy, but deals keep slipping, can't figure out why. Forecasts change every week. We have no idea what revenue actually to actually expect. By the time we know our customer is unhappy, they've already decided not to renew. Chris Carolan: Finance wants one set of reports, sales wants different reports. Nobody agrees on what's real, at least like on the front side of the process. And since we can't agree there, that means accounting is what's real. Like the dollars and cents, it's like the only thing. Chris Carolan: Right? So naturally, all of the opportunity, you know, gets missed and everything is all of the discontinuity is handled verbally. Right? Outside of the system. Um, and I think what we're trying to show here, right? Chris Carolan: Like often buy like BI BI software or HubSpot or whatever reporting system, like the tools aren't aren't going to fix this. Um, so if you've said RevOps is going to fix this and then you just tell RevOps to fix it somehow without them needing to collaborate with marketing or sales or finance, like, you know, they can't can't do it. They either have to spend all their time talking to everybody, or they make up rules like, well, in order for the system to work, uh, we we can't skip can't skip stages, guys, like this is how the reporting system works. Um, so any other, I guess, failed attempts that come to mind and trying to alleviate this this part of the experience? Casey Hawkins: I think yeah, um, I just had, actually I had just like two weeks ago, had a conversation, um, a sales leader who I work with on their HubSpot instance, called me and she was like, hey Casey, can you meet with me and our CFO. The QuickBooks integration isn't working. There's this these two deals that are showing open in HubSpot, but in um, but we've got paid for those already. Casey Hawkins: And I'm not seeing sync errors, so I'm just like, I don't know what's going on. Um, we meet with the CFO and within two minutes, um, one of the deals hadn't been paid yet. There was, I don't really even know what happened. I don't, you know, I don't know if the customer told the salesperson, yeah, we paid that, but they hadn't sent the check or check was in the mail, whatever, it doesn't matter. Casey Hawkins: Um, and then the other deal, they had made a partial payment. Um, and I am I would not call myself a HubSpot QuickBooks integration expert. But I don't think I couldn't in their instance at least, we were not able to show like the partial payment. So from HubSpot's perspective it just looked open. Um, but the CFO was like, well, we got like half the payment or whatever it was. Um, so it's interesting to talk about this like having just gone through that and think about even well-intentioned, even using the like that's QuickBooks HubSpot integration. Like that's built to help us do this, and yet still we are almost causing more friction in many ways, um, because if we don't have the full view, then there's distrust in in this case, there was distrust in HubSpot. Casey Hawkins: From not enough context. Chris Carolan: Yeah. And I think the part uh, the framing that point we should be adjusted is that in general, accounting system integrations are not built to give us Unified Revenue Views. Chris Carolan: They're built to help us reconcile. Um, and be able to theoretically answer those questions of whether somebody has paid or not, because sales needs to know, because it's getting delivered and if they haven't paid, like they need to pay before they can open it up. Chris Carolan: Um and a way that's made sense to me and sometimes others is like, so often in manufacturing, you have an order management team that is very much like everything they do is like what customer success does in SaaS. Chris Carolan: In terms of they're helping uh, the people get the value that they paid for in whatever form that comes in, but when it's called order management, it's the mindset is we're going to do this process so that people will pay their invoice, right? Versus customer success, we're going to make them so successful that they, of course, they're going to pay the invoice. Like we shouldn't even be questioning that, right? Chris Carolan: And it's just a different like way of thinking about how these systems are supposed to come together. Um, and when you're trying to put people in a position that are on the front lines to have all the visibility necessary to to make that a great experience, that's much different than just making sure invoice uh, from Company A synced to invoice Company A in the other system. Chris Carolan: Um. So, I'll have probably more questions than to to add. Uh, but one of the realizations a few years ago to to me was, closed one deal, it does not equal cash flow, which is when the invoice gets paid. Um, if you sell services, I I think it's fine to put the let's say the full service fee on a deal. And let's say deal is worth 20k, but the, you know, payment is structured 10k in advance, 10k after completion, which means as you said, Casey, you will have, you know, half of it paid and your half doesn't. Klemen Hrovat: At the deal level, I think it's, you know, it's correct that the 20k deal was closed one, but it doesn't mean the cash flow immediately follows that closed one deal. So cash flow and and, you know, signed agreement and and and close one are are different concepts. Um Klemen Hrovat: So I think those two systems have different purposes. You know, QuickBooks and all the counting is is meant for you to track the payments. Um, not necessarily the the the total projected revenue, which is what close one deals are telling you. Chris Carolan: Right. And that's where this is part of the challenge and why like I've talked to people on the Commerce Hub team and they they agree that this has really never been done before effectively, like in one system, unless you're doing these million dollar like SAP implementations where the entire company is working out of one system, which they're probably not, but, you know, without this master system that forces everybody to use it, like it's very rare. Uh, and I think there's a case to be made where it hasn't like Unified Revenue View where you can tie marketing behavior and audience behavior to real forecast understanding that you can trust and measure against and make decisions based on is not doesn't usually happen and largely that's because the systems of record are on the accounting side. Chris Carolan: And they cannot have maybes in the system. They hate it, they hate maybes, right? So that's why these systems don't get integrated, or when they do, it's like sales, we don't care about your process. It's got to be named this when it gets to this point, and even though it doesn't make sense, right? And that's where what we have now is an infrastructure in a platform like HubSpot that can house all of this data, but also bringing in a lot of data that we've never had access to before, uh, on the signals side of things. Um, and it doesn't have to replace all these finance systems, like it's we don't I don't want HubSpot to be the accounting tool. Chris Carolan: Like please don't ask it to do that. Um, but since we can bring it together, we can actually create like this picture. And uh, so when we think about marketing wanting so badly to be responsible for a revenue number and moving it, like, and they don't have visibility to the operations side of the house, right? So literally everyone in your organization who makes revenue-related decisions sees complete commercial reality, not sales optimistic pipeline, not finance's historical accounting, not success teams' engagement metrics in isolation, but the complete picture of revenue health. Chris Carolan: So sales sees customer health and usage patterns before expansion conversations. So usually this is on the customer success side of the house and not the CRM side of the house. Delivery team, they see deal commitments and expectations before starting implementation. This doesn't mean they're not talking to sales about a handoff, but there's data backing up like during the process this this happened. Uh, finance sees deal progression and confidence before revenue recognition. Chris Carolan: Customer success sees original deal context and promises made and leadership sees a relationship-based revenue forecast and not stage-based either. Um, because everybody's asked to make decisions based on this. Chris Carolan: And what we get is a bunch of this at the end of the year where it's like, okay, somebody told us this is our revenue goal for 2026. If we look back at 2025, we sold 100 of these things. So if this is a revenue goal, we need to sell 200 of these things next year. So that's so that's the forecast. That that's the goal. Like we just got to hit it, right? Chris Carolan: With no deal pipelines to back it up, no understanding of what that's going to entail. Like so people come up with, you know, marketing-focused or sales-focused tactics like, oh, let's just sell it let's just sell to this industry too. Or hey, maybe we could make this new product because this other company like us sells it too. Chris Carolan: So we'll just make a new product and then all of a sudden we'll start forecasting for that as if it's just like, you know, that the most egregious assumptions related to the most important like measurement of the business. Casey Hawkins: You said a word that I don't see on this screen, so I'm curious. You've mentioned how marketing cares about this view. Are is marketing but marketing's not here. Marketing's not here. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Is it because I know you look at sales and marketing often as one team or do you think this needs to stop being marketing's wait? Um I think it's very hard to ask marketing you make revenue-related decisions. Chris Carolan: Um, so if that's the bar we're setting, like I think it makes sense to not require this for them. Um, but this is built in a world where there's one customer team. But I want to talk to Claud about it now. Chris Carolan: Update this. I I have thoughts around that. Um Chris Carolan: Where marketing and and and I see now there is uh visually there is leadership sees is across two blocks so there is a place for marketing. Uh Yeah. And and it goes it just got cut cut. Uh why marketing should see that is I had a chat with with one of the customers, a RevOps leader who said, we start looking at data questioning our assumptions around ICP and and where we are, you know, getting the the the most revenue or where do we want to double down our activities for the next year. And when we start looking at the data where we are getting the most MRR, their SAS platform, they realized know it's not with the the largest enterprises, which was the assumption but you know, there's a middle tier of companies 500 to 5,000 employees. And that realization or or, you know, thought process came directly from revenue numbers or or close one deals and revenue and close one deals from within HubSpot and then you start digging deeper and they realize, okay, this is a segment we should double down because this is our sweet spot where we have the best conversions, where we have the most leads and and and this is where I think revenue-based or related decisions go back to to marketing. Casey Hawkins: I to advocate for marketing here for a moment. I think I think the reason that marketing cares about this is because marketing is uh constantly asked about ROI. Um, and without the revenue piece, it's pretty much impossible to know the ROI. You're just guessing at ROI at that point. Or you're or what a lot of teams do is they base ROI on the first purchase and then say with an asterix on the breast days, but we know we get a lot of repeat customers. So honestly our ROI is even better than what we show, which is like, I don't know, a shrug. Chris Carolan: Yep. I I think it's a mess here. Um Sorry to derail us. Chris Carolan: No, I think it's it's fair. Uh, are to overcome all of the uh status quo understanding. Um, I did ask Cloud, uh, I said, uh, does marketing care about the Unified Revenue View? He says, yes, or maybe not in the way marketing teams initially expect. Chris Carolan: Uh, the Unified Revenue View is primarily a commercial clarity outcome, pipeline through collection. So at first glance, it looks like a sales plus finance story, but marketing has a direct stake in it for a few reasons. Uh, the interest object also known as the leads object in some portals, uh, is where marketing's work lives inside the revenue view. Commercial flow starts with interest recognition, media engagement, community participation, assessment activity before anything ever reaches a deal. Marketing's job is generating and progressing those interest records. Chris Carolan: If marketing can't see what happens after interest progresses, they're flying blind on what's actually working. Attribution stops being a fight when revenue is visible end-to-end in one system. Marketing doesn't have to argue about influence. The relationship between content engagement, interest progression, deal, and revenue is traceable. And that's a structural win for marketing credibility. Chris Carolan: What marketing shouldn't be measuring shifts. Uh, the canonical marketing dashboard for the Unified Revenue View isn't email opens and form fills. It's which content drives progression. Uh, how do marketing touchpoints complement sales and support interactions? Which relationship segments engage meaningfully with which approaches, how well content supports where people actually are in their journey, and which customers are showing advocacy signals. Uh, so yeah, we'll have to get we'll have to get marketing on this side uh, for sure. Uh, good call out. Chris Carolan: Um, and I think we can skip uh, let's see here. So, as we go through the playbook, um, this is not something that happens overnight. And as we have come to understand, um, in many, many clients, uh, over the past couple months, the concept of a Unified Customer View also doesn't happen overnight, but it doesn't mean we can't document it and understand what we need to bring together into one view to create the foundation needed. Um, so milestones here, can we can we just see it? can we see see all the all the data together? Um, and this, uh, Klemen, uh, I feel the need to share with you that you um inspire an idea over the weekend, uh, that I shared on Value First Office Hours, uh, earlier today. Chris Carolan: Uh, by the way, 11:00 AM Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, 11:00 AM central. Join us. Uh, you've been talking about the need to embrace uh, unclean data or imperfect data or incomplete data to some extent. And while it's not good to expect all data to be clean or to actually get to complete, I anticipate most people don't want to embrace imperfect, uh, especially when it comes to data. So can we embrace intentional data instead? Chris Carolan: And I was reminded of it here, um, because just getting the space created inside of HubSpot, right? So we have deals, we have quotes, we have orders, invoices, payments. all those objects exist. They have they all have cards. They all have CRM cards out of the box. So you could create a middle tab and put those cards in there. And even if they don't have any data inside of them, you're being more intentional with what you want to see in the system. Chris Carolan: And you don't need to wait until that data exists to do that, right? And what that does is it creates a decision matrix or decision-making framework to say, okay, as we go and integrate in Salesforce, is there any data in Salesforce that can help us fill in this view? Uh, and I bet if you find it, it wasn't going to be included in the initial integration. Um, is that fair? That phrase, intentional data? Do you think that's something we might be able to to help people with? Klemen Hrovat: Um, I like the use phrase relevant. Yeah. But intention like can work. Uh, too. I mean, it's right now in my mind is semantics. Either works. The the purpose of it is is the same. What is important what you should intentionally think about or what is relevant for where the customer is in the journey, that data should be as complete as possible and as clean as possible. If it's not relevant, don't over complicate too much. And if there is data you want to get from the HubSpot user, if you show it that it's empty, it will be somewhere in in someone's mind that hey, maybe you know, that property or that card is there for a reason. Um, so A, we need to figure out how to bring the data in or I need to fill it out because I'm, you know, the deal owner or company or whatever. Chris Carolan: Yeah. That makes sense. Um what's interesting, and this is where the SaaS companies will get you like, yeah, there's forecasting tools in HubSpot, there's goals, but if you try to set that up, like especially this part, forecasts based on anything relevant, um, like before you have trust in the system, right? Chris Carolan: It's like good luck. That's why everybody's exporting everything outside of the system, they're comparing it to their own data and their own conversations and then talking it out because nobody wants to be accountable to this data either if nobody else trusts it. So trying to start here where you can make decisions based on the data before you even know you have everything accounted for, right? Chris Carolan: So revenue lifecycle from first opportunity through renewal visible in one place, like pretty hard to build into these other these other um milestones, right? And even now like uh, revenue intelligence and that idea like starting to apply AI. People are doing that without these two things done and yeah, it's not going well for those people. Chris Carolan: Indeed. And again, HubSpot doesn't and systems like it, they don't have to replace the other systems, but just know that there's space over here for this data. And like Unified Revenue View might be like for the CFO, uh, might not be in HubSpot. And that's understandable. It might be over in their other system. You might have a hard time prying the spreadsheet out of their hands at the end of the day, um, because they've they've been using that spreadsheet forever and they know how it works and they trust it. Right? Chris Carolan: Now this doesn't mean we can't have a Unified Revenue View for a sales team, for marketing, for teams working out of HubSpot, right? Because we have these objects in play to like native out of the box. We're not talking about custom objects here, require a bunch of configuration, we can put the data here so that we can put the put this picture together, right? Um, once we have it, things like health, right? Which largely I would anticipate right now that a lot of health scoring in HubSpot is not necessarily based on revenue and is based on engagement and behavior and things that aren't dollars and cents. Chris Carolan: And that is uh that is one of the ways your your best customers are become also your most costly customers. Um since they are highly engaged. They look like they have a great health score, but everybody's attending to them and now the margins are are gone. Um So, uh as we wrap up today, um like what are the top questions that come to mind, or really anything that comes to mind as we move into uh, you know, the playbook of this this view and try to help people build it out. Casey Hawkins: I have two like foundational questions probably. Um One is and maybe you don't have like maybe this is this depends and that's fine. But like I like to I like to think in practical terms. And like do these do all of these views, Unified Revenue View, Unified Customer View, are they like tabs in HubSpot for the team that's in HubSpot? Casey Hawkins: I know you or we already talked about like this might not be in HubSpot for the CFO. But for teams in HubSpot, is that practically how these get built? Chris Carolan: I think so. Casey Hawkins: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then my follow-up question, and this is again just like a foundational question. But like do you have a strategy right now or like a what is the thought about like where the Unified Customer View ends and the Unified Revenue View begins? Chris Carolan: If there ends and it never begins. Casey Hawkins: Because like I just, well, I mean, I just think like the revenue is part of the customer view in some ways. Um, so where's the distinction or is is there? Casey Hawkins: I should have should have written Chris these questions. Chris Carolan: No, no, no, no. No, I don't like that at all. Uh, No, I think it relates to I mean, in almost every case when I feel like it's about to be hard to answer questions like that related to anything Value First, it's coming back to like what are we measuring really? What are we trying to understand? So, for a Unified Customer View, we are trying to measure the health of the relationship with that other human. Chris Carolan: For a Unified Revenue View, we are trying to measure the health of the relationship through the lens of what the business also needs to make sure it's a healthy relationship, which is usually revenue, right? Um, because in my last uh in-house gig, like one of our you know, one of our top top uh, top clients was like, you know, responsible for 40% of the revenue. But it was probably the lowest margin client that we had and everybody knew it, but you couldn't see in the system exactly where and why. You just felt it like, oh, we're always answering the phone, we're always emailing, we're always bending over backwards. They're 40% of the revenue, so yeah, we're not going to challenge, but we don't even have the visibility we need to even try and make it better, right? Chris Carolan: Like where can we like improve the scenario? And that's why you can't really get to a Unified Revenue View without the Unified Customer View, um, at least from a person perspective. Um, and so I think that's that's a great question. It's probably very nuanced, but, you know, off the top of my head, it's probably like maybe customer lifetime value or like recent orders is like what you would see on the Unified Customer View to round out that picture. Uh, and on the Unified Revenue View, it'd be like, you know, margin analysis as well or like total product like uh, expansion based on what's forecast. Like I think there's a strategic to element, there's a strategic element to every view that I'm starting to learn better ways of of speaking to that. But that's probably the wildcard in most situations. Like if it's if they pay us a lot of money, but it's in a market like we're not good at and that market might be going away next year, like all that money might not be super healthy. Like for the organization, it doesn't mean like the relationship is not great, but strategically it might not be good idea to make decisions based on the health from a commercial perspective. Casey Hawkins: So there's some overlap, likely. Chris Carolan: Oh, for sure. Uh, and I think that's the the fun part for us in terms of like can we just get to um get to the point where we can see the overlap and then make decisions and help teams make decisions based on it instead of assuming HubSpot's not going to be like the system of of revenue, like view, understanding. Right? Um and this is where I focus on the data model part. Chris Carolan: Like if you have the data model right, you can make all these views on one record. Like in HubSpot, actually very easily. So, and it's very powerful when you can just grab a native out of the box card from HubSpot, like customer lifetime view and because all the past orders are in the system already and just all of a sudden, this thing that people usually don't have a good idea of is now all of a sudden visible. Right? That was not some kind of integration or or like, you know, custom reporting setup, but all of a sudden we have probably 10 times the insight that we had before we like dragged that card in. Chris Carolan: So, um, hopefully this process will help people make decisions like that. Like if you want to see customer lifetime value, let's let's see it. Let's put it in put it in the view. And it's okay if it's on all four views too, right? Like multiple people need that information and we don't want to force them into other systems to get it at the end of the day. So, How about you, Klemen? Klemen Hrovat: Um, the thought you said that, you know, it's not only the net revenue which is important to make revenue-based or revenue-related decisions is uh uh what's staying in my mind, which is often not the case on on close deals, you just see the the value but not the margin and and and all that and then it it might see as you said, yeah, 40% of revenue, but 80% of our costs are also related to that same customer. Klemen Hrovat: So do we want to keep it? Is it a distraction, um, to the business for what what we want to be as a business. Um, So I'm looking forward to where that all brings us. There's a lot to to think about. Chris Carolan: There is. And we're going to help you break it down as we move forward. This is part one. I think we can keep it to sixth parts. Uh, I don't know, spring spotlight's going to be happening during this somewhere in the series, so that might uh shape things up and all the Commerce Hub team have been working hard on helping with this very topic. So just like we planned it, folks. Casey Hawkins: As always. Chris Carolan: Until next Tuesday, uh, we'll be back with Unified Revenue View part two. Thanks so much, Casey and Klemen. Klemen Hrovat: Thank you. Take care of everybody. Casey Hawkins: Bye.