Value-First Data - Jan 13, 2026

[00:03] **Introduction** Chris Carolan: Good afternoon, good evening, LinkedIn friends, Value-First Nation. Welcome to uh our first episode of 2026, our 10th episode in this series of Value-First data here with Klemen and Casey. How are you doing?

[00:23] **Value-First Data Series: Unlocking Value** Klemen Hrovat: Good. Casey Hawkins: Good. Chris Carolan: Excited? Casey Hawkins: Doing well. Casey Hawkins: Excited. Casey Hawkins: Excited to be back with the the three of us to dig into Value-First data in the new year. And Chris I think is a little too pleased with how life is going and how technology is moving. I think I... Chris Carolan: I mean, how can you not, in my opinion? Things are working out. They seem to be working out. I know. Yeah. Uh, and that's why we're here. We at least that's why I'm here. Um, lots of value to be unlocked out there right now. Uh, lots of smart people that are very tech savvy that are still having trouble connecting the dots of like they know they need a unified data and a lot of the things that everybody's telling you that you need to do to um, get value out of AI. But it's very hard to find a a best practice or like a a non like custom, like a non um, like case by case approach to getting this done like in an organization. Um, so a lot of the content we're going to be doing probably throughout the year is like how much show and tell can we do in a meaningful way that helps people even if it's one at a time, like start to to understand what we're doing. Chris Carolan: Is that fair? Klemen Hrovat: Yeah, a lot to unpack and think through. Chris Carolan: Yeah. So uh we're going to dive right in. There's uh I think we've got some tools now. you spent a lot of time um talking about like kind of the theory and the strategy uh related to Value-First data and understanding uh where people are, where the humans are in their journey, moving through all the value path stages. Um, as a reminder, audience, research, I should start testing you guys at some point. Casey Hawkins: Oh no, no, no, no, no. Chris Carolan: [inaudible] Chris Carolan: No, it's not gonna go there. Casey Hawkins: Yeah, I'll just. Chris Carolan: Casey doesn't like pop quizzes. Casey Hawkins: No, it's so bad. Chris Carolan: Uh, okay, here, let me see if I... Klemen Hrovat: I'm comfortable taking that one because I just expanded lifecycle stages in our Hubspot portal to those eight. Chris Carolan: There we go. Klemen Hrovat: So I could go and take that one for you, Casey. Chris Carolan: I'll tell you what, either go for it or you can click on that button, because I'm curious what it does. Chris Carolan: It says not sure where to start, talk to the catalyst. I didn't even know this was on the homepage. Casey Hawkins: Let's talk to the catalyst. Casey Hawkins: What are the eight stages of let's just be honest... Value Path. Chris Carolan: Let's see what we get with that. Casey Hawkins: Nailed it. Klemen Hrovat: Value Path stages. Klemen Hrovat: Here we go. Chris Carolan: Casey, you should have been uncomfortable taking that one. Casey Hawkins: [laughter] Casey Hawkins: No, but it's. Casey Hawkins: So they're audience, researcher, hand raiser, buyer, value creator, adopter, advocate, and champion. Casey Hawkins: One thing about me, I read a lot of text on LinkedIn lives. Chris Carolan: Oh man. Chris Carolan: Um, yeah, I'm throwing everything into this site to try and like get this stuff out there. Um, so that at the end of this year, you will not be able to say I wasn't aware of um of this stuff. Chris Carolan: So that's where we've been. Um, it's hard not to just want to just continue this conversation. So we'll go back. Uh, that's where we've been. Chris Carolan: Now, and um, so what does Value-First data mean? Chris Carolan: What does even like the value path mean? Hearing a lot of phrases right now of unified data, people are understanding um, that as a as a need. But like what's the first step to get there in like a like a robust kind of way where it's not like super gray immediately and we got to start like randomly finding quick wins. So I've landed on the unified customer view as a concept that uh it's very easy. Uh, it might, it doesn't surprise you, it's very easy for two things to happen. And that's one, understand what unified and customer and view means. You generally don't have to explain those words. Um, but two, you're unlikely to get any pushback that it's a good idea for the organization to have a unified customer view. Chris Carolan: Is that is that fair so far? Klemen Hrovat: Yeah. Casey Hawkins: Yeah, it's fair. Casey Hawkins: That's fair. Chris Carolan: So keeping it simple, is it fair to say it's a yes or no answer? Klemen Hrovat: For that I think you can get the yes. Chris Carolan: All right. Chris Carolan: So if we can get that alignment out of the gate, it gives you a very clear um, let's say a clear deliverable, for lack of a better word, that we might not know. Chris Carolan: Like we don't have any idea how to get there, but it creates a a more meaningful outcome as opposed to unified data, right? Chris Carolan: It's less ambiguous, in my opinion. And to see what I mean, like let's go to the playbook if you don't mind, Klemen. So under content and playbooks click on the unified customer view and some foreshadowing. Chris Carolan: We're going to be doing this on this series to go through these different views. Um, this is ungated. Chris Carolan: Anybody can can come in and probably should share some links to it at some point. Um, but step-by-step guide to building complete customer visibility in Hubspot, configure properties, set up associations and create automated workflows. Um, curious, when you guys think playbook as it relates to software, what do you think is about to happen? Casey Hawkins: Sales. Klemen Hrovat: Uh, to me, the onboarding to something. Chris Carolan: That's fair. Um, and even here, like a lot of the reason I'm doing this is like spending this month figuring out if these words make sense and be so hard to to be in your own world and like develop and develop and think is the right words. Chris Carolan: Even as I'm reading this, after the the conversation, just having Trisha. Chris Carolan: Like, says this playbook will guide you through configuring Hubspot for complete customer visibility. Uh, before we start, let's make sure you have everything you need. Chris Carolan: Check off each item as you verify it. Um, I would love for you guys to just share what comes to mind as you uh read through these items. And may have not seen this before, folks, just just in case. Casey Hawkins: [laughter] Casey Hawkins: The dead air, wasn't it? Chris Carolan: So raw, raw feedback on the way. Casey Hawkins: Um, I think these make sense. Casey Hawkins: I'm thinking pa, if I'm being honest on what's like going on in my actual in my actual brain, um, is I did that series for a while, Chris, on like where do Hubspot admins go first in Hubspot. Um, and I'm thinking about like a lot of the settings that they look at that people mentioned there and um, this is aligning with a lot of what that looked like. Chris Carolan: On the right track. is missing yet. Chris Carolan: Um, have you ever been in that situation where somebody asks you for help with Hubspot, help cleaning up Hubspot, help optimizing Hubspot. And then you ask them what what licenses they have and which parts of Hubspot they have and they they can't they can't answer that question. Casey Hawkins: So many times. Casey Hawkins: And I'm really I'm really bad at like what is included in the different Hubspot tiers. So I'm constantly talking to people who are like, hey Casey, we want your help setting up automation. Casey Hawkins: And I'm like, amazing, you got it. Casey Hawkins: And then I get in there and they're on like a starter tier and I'm like, so here's the thing. Casey Hawkins: Yep. Klemen Hrovat: I typically see that when part of the the scope we request for for Celestial to connect via API is for the sequences, because this is, you know, often been part of what we what we help also. And because that is behind the Sales Pro, um, that's when I figured out, okay, so you don't have Sales Pro. Uh, other than that, I often forget even to ask because I just you know assume a bit mature companies to just have at least that. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Chris Carolan: Um, and that get you into trouble real quick if you start making promises about what you can do to help them. Chris Carolan: And then you find out that they don't have access to workflows. Casey Hawkins: It really does. Casey Hawkins: It I cannot emphasize how much. Chris Carolan: Right. Chris Carolan: Um, and as I try to qualify what's on the screen here, like sales, service or marketing, generally those are the customer facing teams. Chris Carolan: So that's why you might not see the other hubs on here, but I'm not sure I want to single those out. Uh, but either way, like understand what Hubspot, like what level of Hubspot is active. Klemen Hrovat: You can also have the Smart CRM. Chris Carolan: Yep. Klemen Hrovat: You have workflows, right? Chris Carolan: Yes. Chris Carolan: Yeah. So Smart CRM, uh, Commerce Hub, content hub, that's where it's really about getting to the heart of like how how the business uses Hubspot and who you're going to need to talk to and uh, things like that. Chris Carolan: So then we have admin permissions. Um, again, you might be surprised how often like when people uh aren't or are using it in a certain way and it's because their permissions aren't what they're supposed to be, or maybe they have too much permission, so it's allows them to work around process, all these things. Um, properties access, objects access, workflows access. So basically, get an audit of Hubspot here. Um, and so right now we're in line with uh, this is a configuration playbook. Um, please move to the next card. Klemen Hrovat: So we're done. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Chris Carolan: We're going to assume we we have all this stuff.

[01:01:35] **Discussion on Playbook Requirements** Klemen Hrovat: This one is hard to have at the beginning. Tell me more. Klemen Hrovat: I I would I would probably hesitant at the beginning of the playbook to take these. Klemen Hrovat: Okay, you can identify a team member, but can you claim at the beginning that they're realigned conceptually? I mean, we got yes at the beginning that, hey, yes, we need and want unified customer view if that's that yes you're looking for, otherwise, I would be hesitant to say teams are aligned already. Chris Carolan: Yeah, I think that's where the the subtext here maybe needs to be more forward. Chris Carolan: Because in the first one, team member identified, at least one other person who will use the unified view daily. Uh, it's not uncommon to run into situations where Hubspot really isn't required for any business critical processes. Chris Carolan: So, have we confirmed and a lot of this is like admins or leaders in the background that aren't like actually using the systems can decide, yeah, let's, we're going to do unified customer view. If you don't get anybody that actually confirms the need for that or want for that, like you won't get the the support you need to actually figure out what the what the view is. Uh, and then the second one, all we're looking for is alignment on which teams like need visibility. Chris Carolan: And again, these are baby steps that you can do a lot of work around these to configure systems, but when you don't have them, you just run into some kind of brick wall at some point. Um, and I think this is going to be where the the rubber starts meeting the road in terms of, okay, great, why do we go from unified customer view sounds great, but I've never actually heard it being accomplished to like taking these steps. Chris Carolan: And I think we are sticking to like you cannot move forward if you haven't identified somebody that's customer facing that needs a unified customer view. Chris Carolan: Like I think the easiest example is, okay Casey, like we're ready for unified customer view, go ahead and set that up like in Hubspot and let us know when it's done. Casey Hawkins: Right? Casey Hawkins: Yeah. Casey Hawkins: Yes. Chris Carolan: So the person who doesn't know your business and the person who's not going to be using the unified customer view every day is is the person that's w to set up. Klemen Hrovat: Not alone, for sure. Chris Carolan: Right. Casey Hawkins: Yeah. Klemen Hrovat: I think this is a good explanation of what team's align mean, but maybe it's not align but uh teams identified. Klemen Hrovat: In in in our experience, where one to start is understanding which teams rely or want to rely on on hub so so the thing we are now cleaning up or setting up. Klemen Hrovat: Doesn't necessarily mean they're already aligned on what needs to be done and what they really need. But just understanding, okay, only marketing is using hub or marketing and sales will be using it. Klemen Hrovat: Is important to understand so you know who needs to be involved in the whole process. Klemen Hrovat: If you want to have sales and marketing use the unified customer view, you need to be talking to both teams from the get go. Klemen Hrovat: Otherwise, you'll just increase the friction between those two teams, because you will be following the desires of one team, which are not, I can guarantee you, align with what the other team thinks is important. Um, and you know, you'll you'll be prioritizing that part of data. Klemen Hrovat: We had that case with one of the customers, in the beginning we started with the marketing team doing the the enrichment of and clean up of context and companies for contacts and companies not older than six months. Klemen Hrovat: And that was fully cleaned up. And then we started talking to sales. Klemen Hrovat: Yeah, but you know, only 20% of my contacts have been enriched. I mean, yes, because that was the scope we would discussed. So, if we would from the get go understand who really wants the data, um, yeah, so understanding and and and confirmation from their side who wants to use that data is I think important at the beginning. Klemen Hrovat: More than the alignment. Klemen Hrovat: That will happen down the road. Casey Hawkins: [affirmative] Chris Carolan: Yeah. Casey Hawkins: I also, I just think like when we look at like team member like so often in these conversations, like who is the person who said we needed a unified customer view to begin with? Casey Hawkins: Like who's who's the internal champion and how close are they to in this case, like Hubspot and like actually being the person that's viewing it each day. Um, sometimes it's very close, like sometimes it is the people who are using the data that are like we need the data. Casey Hawkins: But often times it's not also. Casey Hawkins: Um, so sometimes it I just find it can sometimes be challenging if the people who the view is for are not bought in at the beginning, then they don't understand. They don't understand what we're doing. Chris Carolan: Yes. Chris Carolan: And I think as I read some of these like there's definitely an element of and I'm maybe someday I start uh providing like behavioral science or whatever. Um, but like buy in. Chris Carolan: Like it's been such a struggle like forever, right? Casey Hawkins: [affirmative] Chris Carolan: And while it's easy to get buying for the unified customer review, like buy in for the work to do it is almost never there and it's completely different and I think what I'm starting to see is like which it it's very hard to put this as the goal, but you got to make them believe it can be done, right? Chris Carolan: So starting with small commitments, like because it's kind of a trick question. agreement on which customer facing teams need visibility. Chris Carolan: They all need visibility, right? Chris Carolan: So they're all going to say yes. And but where? Chris Carolan: Like does it mean it's in Hubspot might not even be in any system. They've got it in their inbox, in their spreadsheets and right? Chris Carolan: Um, so I need do need to get better at saying that, like the unified customer view exists somewhere, usually it's right before, you know, the board room, right before the next presentation, spending hours gathering slides, getting everything together from people's heads and from emails and all the places, and then you have it for like this fleeting moment and then like out of date immediately. Um, which which brings us to the next. Chris Carolan: So I think there's an element of like we just have to get like some yesses, no matter how simple they are. Chris Carolan: I also think it helps like build trust in the process that we're not just showing mountain after mountain of like impossible task in front of you, right? Chris Carolan: Um, I think it leads well to the next one, right? Chris Carolan: Like build on it. Do we have documentation of our systems? Chris Carolan: Even the informal ones. Chris Carolan: Holding the customer data. So list of systems currently holding customer data. Chris Carolan: Um, you might think this is this should be an easy answer. It rarely is. Casey Hawkins: [affirmative] Casey Hawkins: Yeah, it's interesting like yeah, it should be easy but how difficult it tends to be and how I'm even just thinking like how often, you know, you can get 50%, maybe even like 75 or 90% down the road towards a unified customer review and and then surprise, there's this other set of data that no one you were talking to knew about or no one thought, oh that customer data? Casey Hawkins: Why would you need our accounting stuff? Casey Hawkins: I didn't think that was important. Oh man. Casey Hawkins: We thought it's marketing. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Chris Carolan: And once we've identified, like so who's going to own it? Um, not even who's going to own it? Chris Carolan: Who could be a champion? Chris Carolan: I think like the people that are going to use unified views. Klemen Hrovat: I would argue there should be an owner. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Klemen Hrovat: [inaudible] you know, when you're building, things will break. Klemen Hrovat: [inaudible] no other way. Klemen Hrovat: Uh, and then someone will need to say, okay, yes, hold on and in eternal person would need to be that. Not not champion, but the owner of of that so that this is the one who will say yes, things broke because we are implementing something new. Klemen Hrovat: Just hold on. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Um, and that's different from you know, you usually see during onboarding is, all right, we need to build some emails, we need to build some campaigns, we need to build some automation. Chris Carolan: That's across different teams, like the person who's in charge of that task, like can can help support the implementation, but then you flip back three months later and you don't know if that was a valuable activity, if it's working or not and because nobody owns it. Um, so it's a good call out. Um, and that person needs time to own it. Uh, so there's time commitment up front. Again, it's not something the external third party can do, right? Chris Carolan: The team needs to be bought in and uh participating in this process. Um, this section I think probably needs some work, but uh basically, do you know what your data is is telling you, how it's structured? Uh, even like all of these should be easy wins, but uh they're often not. Chris Carolan: Like where are all the contact records? Chris Carolan: Oh, we just deal with. We just we just worry about companies. Chris Carolan: Like companies that leads and then we pull it out of the system and then we like do the the contacts in another system. Casey Hawkins: So that's what you're, so that's what you're asking here is like where do contacts live? Casey Hawkins: Where do company where does company data live? Casey Hawkins: Not so much like what is all the company data we have? Chris Carolan: Yeah, I think this is where it gets specific to Hubspot like customer contacts in Hubspot, even if incomplete. Um, and uh like an example that comes to mind. I've been asked in the past to send an email to the customer list. Chris Carolan: And all those emails are in like the ERP system or somewhere else that I can't access. Chris Carolan: Pretty hard to build a unified customer view if you don't have the customers like in the system. Chris Carolan: Um, I think it leads to being able to identify test cases number three here. Um, at least 10 quote good customer records to use for testing. I'm curious, Klemen, I imagine you run into this a bit where trying to help people clean data, like just finding any any spaces where we trust the data or we even know what it is and where it came from. Klemen Hrovat: I would say not only 10 good, but also 10 bad because if we'll be building on records where you have everything, you will assume you will always have everything, which is, I can guarantee you, not the case. Klemen Hrovat: And as you build the system, you want the system to cover all the edge cases. Klemen Hrovat: And and these are the 10 20% of of the difficult parts of building it out. That's what we see when we're building all the AI agents, how you know, people start. Klemen Hrovat: And I think that analogy will explain why you need also the bad ones or the incomplete and and all that. Klemen Hrovat: You go, build an agent, you run it in 10 perfect cases and you say yes, the agent works, the classification is correct or we found the right data because for that 10, the data is there. Klemen Hrovat: Then you run the the next 11th one and that data is missing. and then you know AI will want to please you and it will give you the answer and it will hallucinate because it you asked to give you the answer and it will help you. Klemen Hrovat: It will deliver the data. Klemen Hrovat: Perfect, hallucinated data. So you need the positive and the negative control to start with seeking test. same goes for lead scoring. Casey, I'm going in your direction. Uh, you know, if you take 10 records where you have the the all the data, you will build a scoring system which will work. Klemen Hrovat: But what happens when you have only 10% of the data available? Klemen Hrovat: The system still needs to work somehow. So this is why I think you need, yeah, more than 10 good examples. Casey Hawkins: I think that's a good point and that's actually why what I like to do when I'm getting situated in a new portal is or when I'm setting up lead scoring the same, um, I'll often ask for examples of good, you know, good records. Casey Hawkins: But then I also try to just look at like what are our recent form submissions? Casey Hawkins: Like what data is coming in on just the average bare coming into our CRM, um, because a lot of times the good examples that I get are contacts associated with deals because those are the like the humans that the sales team knows and they're like, yes, use this person. Casey Hawkins: I know that they're a good example. Casey Hawkins: I know them. But then you look at the 20 most recent form submissions and nobody has a job title. Casey Hawkins: So you just don't know anything um to do with with those people or what to do. Chris Carolan: That's the question I wanted to ask is what is good? Chris Carolan: Because I'm going to go on a limb and say it's pretty easy to find 10 bad ones usually. Klemen Hrovat: I would say it's usually the the less than are the bad ones. Chris Carolan: Oh man. Chris Carolan: So what is good mean? Chris Carolan: What what if there aren't any good? Chris Carolan: Like how do we lower the bar in terms of what good means? Chris Carolan: What if there aren't any good? Casey Hawkins: [laughter] Klemen Hrovat: Then we have I guess another discussion if there are not not good ones. Klemen Hrovat: Um, good means verified or processed or reviewed by a human. Klemen Hrovat: So records they trust the data. Chris Carolan: There we go. Trust. Chris Carolan: I that's what I'm already seeing here. Chris Carolan: Like we've got to build these views out like at some level of trust, like if we're starting from zero, like it's it's hard to get like an inkling of belief that you can even accomplish it and that's where I think like it says even if incomplete at the top, there's generally somebody who knows like what what's going on. Chris Carolan: Like if that human's in the system, uh, like go grab that person and say like let's like the the person plus the record basically become like the good example. Uh, and that getting to that place of known trusted information, I think is what we're we need to get to here. Um, and then of course related to that is if it's associated to deals, like understanding how all the objects are used. Um, Casey Hawkins: Because even when you say like what if there are no good examples, I think back to when that when that's happened, when I've gone into lead score and I've asked for good examples, um, it's less common to me that they have zero. Casey Hawkins: Like they don't have any good examples. Casey Hawkins: It's more common that they give me a good a good example and then I go on the record and there's nothing there. Casey Hawkins: It's created by sales. and like there's no data on it. Casey Hawkins: And I'm like, like, what do you want me to do with this? Casey Hawkins: And they're like, no it that's the they were like, they're like this is exactly who we want to go after. Casey Hawkins: And I'm like, but who are they? Casey Hawkins: But the human who handed it to me knows exactly who that person is. In that case, what I more commonly see is there's a data a data gap. Chris Carolan: [affirmative] Chris Carolan: I think this is why we have to start with organizational readiness. Chris Carolan: Like you have to engage people like throughout the process. Um, like to have any chance of success here. Chris Carolan: Uh, and I just can't get over the end the end here. Chris Carolan: Uh, like you can still continue but you may encounter blockers if you haven't verified all requirements. Chris Carolan: We recommend addressing any unchecked items before proceeding. How often do we show up and it's like Hubspot got built but nobody like is bought in to using it and uh, and nobody knows what the data means. Chris Carolan: Suddenly, it tells me this is a worthwhile activity. Chris Carolan: Like this this result is going to be very common and that there's offer on these other spaces and this is why this is so so challenging. Um, uh, but we got to start somewhere, I guess. Uh, let's let's move forward. Chris Carolan: Um, unless you have thoughts, Klemen. You just. Klemen Hrovat: I I'm thinking because I don't have things to block us going to the next view. Chris Carolan: All right. Uh, yeah, we're going to see what kind of blockers we run into. Um, document your starting point. Chris Carolan: Before building anything, we need to understand where you are today. Chris Carolan: Your answers here will guide which parts of this playbook to prioritize. Chris Carolan: Answer at least three questions to continue. Be specific. Chris Carolan: vague answers lead to vague implementations. Casey Hawkins: Not wrong. Klemen Hrovat: Yeah, you need, you need yes here. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Casey Hawkins: Um, so what questions about your customers can you not currently answer? Casey Hawkins: Where do you currently look when you need the full picture on a customer? Casey Hawkins: What customer contacts gets lost in handoffs between teams? Casey Hawkins: Which Hubspot objects are you actively using today? Casey Hawkins: Which objects have you tried, abandoned or never explored? Casey Hawkins: I would start with which Hubspot objects are you actively using today because it feels like the easiest one. It's a more straightforward one. Casey Hawkins: Like what are, like what are we using? Casey Hawkins: What aren't we? Klemen Hrovat: We often try to so so one is asking them to articulate. Klemen Hrovat: And the other one is reviewing the portal to see what they're using. Klemen Hrovat: Which properties are visible on a contact and company record. Klemen Hrovat: This gives you a clear indication, you know, which properties they want to have populated and in whatever data, available for the human user of the hubspot. Klemen Hrovat: There might be other properties relevant, hidden. But this is often in our experience a good indication of understanding the current state of the portal, not only the objects, but properties. Casey Hawkins: So that's interesting because I when I see the properties listed on a record, and I think this is going to speak to the types of businesses I work with probably. Casey Hawkins: But like I take that I don't take that into much consideration because most of the time it comes up in for me that those they didn't even know you could customize the those. Casey Hawkins: They thought that was just like what it was. Um, but I guess Clement you're saying that those do seem to be important. Casey Hawkins: Which, Klemen Hrovat: If if there are only standard ones, it's probably clear that they don't even know how to customize it or that you can. Klemen Hrovat: But if there are any different ones than the default ones, this is an indication that they know they can do it and they did it. Klemen Hrovat: So they made those properties visible to the user, so because probably they are important. Casey Hawkins: Which, I mean, I was just thinking like in my head that it may just be the difference in like maturity. Casey Hawkins: Like if they're if a company is implementing celestial, then they're at a maturity of their data. Casey Hawkins: Like they they have, you know, they're trying to get after specific individuals and specific companies and improve their data versus most of the time when people are calling me, it's like Hubspot. Casey Hawkins: We need help. Casey Hawkins: [laughter] Casey Hawkins: That's a fair point. Casey Hawkins: But it really I'm like, okay, I'm like great, people are using that. Casey Hawkins: That's awesome. Chris Carolan: Yeah. No, I think it's important. Um, to ask questions that have meaningful answers to, like for the person that you're asking to like buy into the process or help. Chris Carolan: And that's where what I'm experiencing now like if the person's not, if the person's job is not Hubspot admin or Hubspot owner, full-time Hubspot and you start to get any level of technical like Hubspot objects, like do they even know what what you mean by that? Chris Carolan: Um, and if they say contacts, companies and deals, like then what? Um, and that's where I think questions like one and two, or actually two. Chris Carolan: I I think question one is a hard like in a vacuum. Um, especially if the system's not working, they they'll they'll find a whole laundry list of of things uh that they still answer, they just don't don't use hub for it. Um, [affirmative] So that's where they always look somewhere when they're trying to get a full picture of the customer. Chris Carolan: I think that's that's my favorite one here. Chris Carolan: Um, you have multiple teams then number three becomes super valuable and super insightful if you can get a healthy dialogue happening there. Casey Hawkins: Um, can I Chris ask you a question that maybe I should have asked at the top. Um, do you think there's a minimum viable like Hubspot subscription or team structure to make this work in a meaningful way or can any can you have starter and get a unified customer review to work in a meaningful way? Chris Carolan: Um, I think you can have like free. Chris Carolan: I mean, you can do this in Excel, like it's basically do you have a person who's looking at it right now? Chris Carolan: Do you have all the data in front of you in a single pane of glass that you need to reach out to the person you want to reach out to and not have to log into other soft wares and click a bunch of screens. Um, Casey Hawkins: So all you need is a human who's working with other humans and needs and has a need for a single a single place to get the data they need. Chris Carolan: Yeah. Just just a human and a dream. Chris Carolan: Indeed. Um, and this is where I struggle. Chris Carolan: very curious what's on the next page. Um, like at some point, oh, so I guess it let's read the end of the of the first of the other page. Um, why document this? Chris Carolan: These